not really what I was expecting. sorry to say, but I’m not really that impressed.

Everyone’s a critic. I don’t see you getting too many good comments here, everyone prefers being critical rather than praising.

That said, this whole process has been about creating brand awareness and you have done that well.

Having watched the video and following the development of the logo I must say I’m a bit disappointed. i know what u’re trying to do but I don’t know if it does it… too many colours, too many stroke widths – think it still needs some fine tuning to balance it out.. at the moment it feels like a meal at the Spur! : )

i quite like it.

billboard called they want their logo back http://tinyurl.com/8bebv

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Billboard_logo.svg – Billboard Top 100 logo

this is like the 2010 world cup logo. so much buzz so little bang… now you can create some buzz around the 10 and 5 redesign competition coming soon

Haha… m, never seen the billboard logo before, but thanks for the comment.

And all the rest of the previous comments too… i guess we all have our own opinions, and who said that design has rules anymore… i opt for no design rules… it leaves my interpretation open to so much more. If it looks good, and the client and agency are happy, then go with the intuition!!

M, haha that is just fantastic! Seems like we can’t get away from it! I can honestly say we didn’t have any idea of the Billboard logo. That being said, on points of differentiation, I still feel that the concept behind the logo is quite different to Billboard. Thanks for pointing it out!

but is the client still happy when his brand spanking new design is not liked by his community?

I like the colour effects, but I agree that it is a bit messy. The horizontal alignment between the “and” and the letters needs work. I would also get the same stroke width on the letters and “and”.

The shape is also a bit tricky for use on the web. Don’t think it will read that well when very small (eg. in a header on this site)

i do like *grin* just a comment on the colour, i’d choose one point of focus, either the 10and5 or the between. would be great to see versions where you don’t use ‘between’ and ‘the creative showcase’ around the logo at the same time, either or. but i know you’ve got those hiding somewhere. congrats!

…but is it really the ‘community’ that is not happy or just a few people…? you will never be able to keep everyone happy and people LOVE to criticise! (like molly pointed out)

IMHO the typography is unsophisticated and heavy handed, lacking rhythm and balance – it’s practically illegible too. The use of colour is a further distraction (especially at smaller sizes).

It looks like very little semantic thought went into the design. It’s hard to understand why ‘and’ is given such prominence, for example.

If you are going to play with typography, do it for a reason, not just to assemble a group of words or letters together so they ‘fit’ (which is what this looks like).

I honestly prefer the way ‘Between 10 and 5′ is written at the top of the site (in what looks like Georgia condensed to -50). It feels much more on brand than the new logo as it is simple and elegant.

Ernst – I think we’re happy with 2 things: The involvement of our community in the whole process (and giving feedback). It shows a healthy interest in what we’re showcasing on the site (you’ll notice the comments on the other posts are also up, as well as the quality of feedback is up).

And the logo. We are happy with it, we’ve got a whole range of options to use (with the text, without the text, on black and white etc, etc). From the start we realised that we will not be able to keep everyone happy (we’ve gotten very mixed opinions back, some saying make X bigger, some saying make X smaller). So we’re not going to keep everyone happy. We like the logo, it is understated and does not detract from the rest of the principle goal of this site – to showcase great creative work.
10and5 does not exist to produce great work, we are here to showcase it.
Keep the comments coming guys, we’re loving them!

To be completely honest, this screams of student-level work. From the spacing of the font, to the ‘concept’ (CMYK + RGB in the logo can’t be called a concept) it’s poorly executed and a let down. Why not open it up to the design community to come up with a better logo – I’m sure you’d have a great one in no time!

the more i look the more i think its nicex2 … so yes… works for me… it is quite childlike tho with all the colours mayb thats why i like it … just needs some stick people with wacky dreads

The logo is here to showcase other design work, not 10&5′s, but unfortunately it will influence people’s experience on the site. It’s distracting and not professional, unlike this great site. ADD, creche and re-hab are the random connotations that I think of when I look at it. The concept of the logo needs a good re-think, along with proper kerning skills and greater simplicity.

wow, people have quite a few opinions. i agree that this will work well as a black and white logo… but you know what? you can change the colors for every season – christmas, easter, hanukkah – hey, even the empire state building does that!

you can have fun with this logo by changing the “mood” every now and then, and not the logo itself.

I looked at it and came back and looked at it again, and:

The really good thing about this logo is that no matter what I do, I can’t get it out of my head. Surely that is exactly what one wants with a logo? A wow factor is only a wow factor if it wows it’s way into your head on a permanent basis!

Well done, guys!

The best thing about this whole page is that you’ve created some buzz around your new logo. Job done & well done.

Expected loads more in the creativity department from a website that showcases creativity. Silly me.

And if the 2bop shirt isn’t given to the person who said Billboard called and they want their logo back, then your competition is rigged!

Hey Uno,
re: anonymous comments -if people don’t have the courage of their convictions, then we shouldn’t take them seriously, it was pretty funny though.

I love the way that everybody is buzzing around this page and more so appreciate the way that you guys are willing to take a few knocks to the face for the sake of a lively discussion.

Don’t take all the crit too harshly, I think that you guys need to remember that your niche audience is going to expect higher standards from you guys, than they would from say, checkers for example.

looks like “between bands” at first glance

How could it be better Daniel?

Remember not to use any big words in your answer

Very disappointing, very eighties. Where’s the edge? The cool, ‘Wish I’d come up with that’ factor. And really tricky to read. Hmmm, pleased I didn’t come up with that.

At first glance it reads: 1Oand5, because of the same font size (10,5 + “and”) the “0″ looks like an “O”.

The uneven line weight and kerning on the name (10and5) is a bit disturbing.

Jacoba, I find your argument a bit weak. When George Bush told his countrymen they needed a war in Iraq, people around the world disagreed, but like it or don’t like it, it kinda stuck.

Although the logo is generating fantastic buzz for 10&5, the community has not responded favourably, resulting in a near 2:1 ratio against it. Perhaps there has been so much debate about the new logo because the community feels very strongly about this blog?

C’mon! Surely the blog representing the South African creative industry can come up with a better logo…

…or have you duped us and the true logo is yet to be revealed?

I’m not loving the idea that is being put forward here, that graphic design, or more specifically, typography is some kind of intuitive pastime with ‘no rules’, especially on a site that represents the professional design community. To me this is a regressive and almost philistine sentiment that is an argument for amateurism.

The history of typography goes back to the mid-15th century – and mark making is as old as civilisation itself. Beauty in typography, as with almost every form of human endeavour, comes from the rigorous application of concepts that have been distilled, experimented with and applied over many hundreds of years.

When I look at the new Between 10 and 5 logo, I just don’t feel the same sense of typographical lineage, technical excellence or craftsmanship that I see in the work of Joe Fino, Massimo Vignelli or Tobias Frere-Jones. These and many other graphic and type designers are not successful because they slavishly follow a set of ‘design rules’, rather their work is often the result of disciplined exploration of various theses, or solutions to technical or creative challenges.

Sean-o, when you dismiss, ‘rules and old outdated design regulations’, you make it sound like you are branching out on your own unique, expressive, avant-garde experiment that should somehow not be subject to the same discipline, or open to the same critique, as other designers. Sadly this is not the case.

Jon Wozencroft argues that even experimental typography must come from a background of rigourous discipline; “The part discipline plays in experimentation can be likened to the role of improvisation in music – before this can happen with any degree of accomplishment, you have to know your instrument inside out.”

I find it hard to believe that you really stand by your statement that, “no design is perfect… thats the beauty.” Imagine if that thinking was applied to ballet. Prima ballerinas being dropped on their heads or tripping over each other would and should not be celebrated. What is charming in the work of 8 year old loses its appeal in the professional world.

Ballet or maths cannot be likened to typography … puhleez!
It’s an art form and art should never have rigid rules. Van Gogh had a helluva time because he also refused to stick to rigid rules! And look what happened there. So did many other great artists, chefs, musicians ……. since when is typography, like maths and science, dependent absolutely on the rules and regulations of one or two self proclaimed masters?

get a hold of yourselves, people. this is a logo, not a Turner prize candidate. FFS. go work in a soup kitchen.

WOW! .. Some good points . However this post has turned negative in my opinion and quoting design theory is not going to make the other party see your point. Its a pity as it was a good debate. I agree with Damian that you need to be sound in the principles of design before you can extend them and “break” them, and i think if we were looking at something really cutting edge and progressive the argument for “old outdated rules” would have been valid. But as it stands the design adheres to certain design principles and doesn’t break any conventions as far as i can see.Carson and Brody had credibility as both were familiar with the rules when they decided to break them, this design unfortunately does not break any rules of design and does not render those rules outdated and old.

I do however thing that by doing a logo for this site Sean took a huge risk. Designing for the design “community” is always hard and you will always attract critics. Im sure he was aware of the risks going into this job. I do think that some of the comments on this blog are valid but i draw the line at personal attacks and holier than thou attitudes. Im sure we all have work in our portfolios that we think is good, but is in fact rubbish in other peoples eyes. If you really take exception to this design perhaps its time to put your money where your mouth is and pull out your own designs for the “community” to crit.

thanks for reading my 2 cents

Have a look at this article written by Khoi Vinh. I think it’s very relevant to this debate and he raises some very interesting points.
http://www.subtraction.com/2009/04/09/dear-designer-you-suck

i think it’s time for a new post and let’s discuss everything we LIKE about this logo.

Thanks for posting that article Matt.

I’m amazed that so many people feel inspired to write stuff along the lines of, ‘hey, don’t take this stuff so seriously – it’s only a logo’, or ‘let’s be positive’.

Firstly, design is our work and something we are passionate about – of course we take it seriously!

Secondly, what is the point of having a design community if we cannot critique each others work? I thought that was the whole point of this exercise. If we are just going to pat each other on the back all the time how are we going to grow?

This kind of critique is a discussion. If you disagree with what is being said, put forward a counter-argument.

I haven’t seen any personal attacks on this thread. Taking a criticism personally is something different all together.

Uno, I have to say that it’s a bit strange to open something up to the public for discussion, then ask people to stop discussing it (or comment less). However, it’s your site so I’ll respect your wishes

A wise old copywriter once told me that you can only break the rules once you’ve learned to obey them. The further I walk on this journey in the professional creative field, the more I understand what she meant.

And Sean-o, remember, obstruction breeds ingenuity.

Logo is nicer than the previous ones…
but it looks verrry similar to this http://www.fastcompany.com/files/MCP-100_0.jpg . Well something…
i-D